Introduce yourselves, please.
Ari:
My name is Ari. I work at Concrete Media as a designer. I
graduated two years ago and came to New York, worked at a small graphic
design firm in SoHo [South of Houston Street, New York City]. I was doing
mostly environmental graphics, which is a bridge to graphic design and
architecture so was three-dimensional graphics. It was everything that has
to do with graphics in the environment. Stayed there for two years and
figured out that the business was not that challenging anymore and moved
to Web design.
Thalia:
I'm Thalia. I'm Indonesian. I work as a junior designer. I
graduated from Mechanical Engineering. It has nothing to do with design.
[laughs]
Why Web design?
Ari:
Basically the environmental projects took a long time. We get
the projects from architects or architectural firms and we are
sub-contracted with them. Depending on the project, it takes about a year
or two to finish. I haven't seen any of my larger works finished yet
[laughs] so it takes a long time and there's very little design work. More
on construction work, dealing with suppliers and fabricators, a lot of
shop drawing stuff, which kind of gets boring. It was interesting in the
beginning when you learn all of the marks and what everything means. I
didn't take any architecture classes while in college so it was quite an
educational experience.
When will Web design get boring? You see a lot of sites right now with the same layouts.
Ari:
I think we see sites right now with the same layout because
that's as far as the Web can go with the technology we have right now.
There are only certain things that work and in the end, there's only
certain ways of doing things.
Do you think it's gonna be more exciting?
Thalia:
I think so. The Web is pretty much a new medium and I think
it will get boring in twenty years or so.
Ari:
I don't think so. I think as long as the money is behind it and
there's a lot of money invested on the technology that supports the Web, I
think it's going to get more exciting. Maybe the form will no longer be
Web-web; maybe it's something else. As long as the turn around is quick
and people are using it for business, it will grow. Just like TV. Twenty
years ago, TV was boring, I guess.
Thalia:
Maybe later, it's gonna be more developed than just
JavaScript or Flash.
Are you guys strictly Web designers?
Thalia:
I don't know. I was a Mechanical Engineer a couple months ago, now I'm a
Web designer. I don't know what's next, but I'm open to new things.
If you weren't doing Web design, what would you be doing?
Thalia:
Mechanical Engineering. [laughs]
Ari:
Print, maybe?
Why print?
Ari:
Because the technology has evolved and it has allowed us to do a lot of things. As opposed to,
for instance, TV. It's totally being replaced by the Web. Now the evolving technology is in
the Web and TV is kind of being, like, skipped over.
Thalia:
I think it's more of the turn around, too. In Web design, you make it and upload it and tah-dah.
Do you think print will remain as a medium?
Ari:
Sure. In the 80's people invested millions of dollars for printing that were just thrown away. It
serves different functions. If you have a book 500 pages long, you wouldn't want to put it
up on the Web. No one's going to read it. Print will always be good for high content
information; things you want to think about, not just look and then go to another page.
Thalia:
You can't rely on just one medium.
Why avocadolite as a name?
Thalia:
First of all, it was just mine. It was the time when I was learning about the Web. I
graduated and had no job for five months. I had a computer in front of me and I had
nothing to do. I was playing around with Geocities and later on, I thought I should
buy a domain. To tell you the truth, I didn't really think about the name that much.
But why I named it avocadolite? It was because I used to work at a sushi restaurant
where avocados where everywhere. I typed in avocado and it was already taken.
Ari:
It allows us to do different things, not just one single thing. It doesn't mean anything.
And the "lite"?
Thalia:
It used to be "light" but then "lite" meant the site is for free time. Everything we
have is not heavy content. We just did whatever. Plus, the spelling is just cool. [laughs]
You provide a lot of people with downloadable content. Why?
Thalia:
To generate traffic. When I first did it, it was like three hits a day. I started to put
games until it was hacked. How do I get people to stay in my site and come back? I was
putting graphics, so might as well offer them for free. Plus, I had nothing to do, so
I kept making graphics. People would come in and maybe download.
How has the response been?
Thalia:
Guestbook entries are always nice. I'm not actually sure if people like it [laughs] but
then who cares? It's my stuff and I put it up in my spare time and it's not like I'm
making money out of it.
Define graphic design.
Ari:
There are certain rules like typographic rules and image rules that you can follow but
there's no real recipe on what makes a good designer or make good designs. It's mostly
based on what your previous experiences are. It's very unique and very individual. But
I think you need to know the basics in order to express yourself and in order to break
the basics.
Define Web design.
Thalia:
A lot of people think you have to be a Web master in order to do Web design; which means
you maintain the page, you know HTML, CGI and JavaScript. I'm not sure that's the definition.
Web design is more graphic design, just on the Web.
What turns you off in design?
Ari:
If I had my way, I wouldn't want to deal with production. You have to know production in
order to see if it's doable. But if someone else is doing it then it's better.
Thalia:
What makes a site badly designed? There's so many. You can't read the content, the background
is clashing. Loading time - not everyone has a T1 line. Maybe the layout. If you're a good
designer, you'll make it work somehow and take the limits into consideration.
Explorer or Netscape?
Thalia:
I.E. for us! I used to bow to Netscape but there are so much limits now. I.E. is so forgiving.
Netscape renders the type so small! And it breaks up! The background scrolls in
Netscape with the type.
Where do you see Web Design going?
Thalia:
Wow. That's a deep question [laughs]
Ari:
A funny thing happened when I was designing for one of our clients. I started doing
anti-alias text and a senior designer pointed out that I should used alias text, which
is really shitty. It doesn't do anything for typography at all. It just puts text on
the page. It's going more and more towards layout.
Thalia:
When the Web began, people were going crazy because you can put text and images together
in no time. Since it gets very developed, more and more people are using it. Now we design
and think about how long it takes to load, what color, what Web-safe colors do we use,
does it work for IE and does it work for Netscape. I'm not sure where it's going but it's
gonna be good. If technology allows us to load content, then people would want to see more
and more.
How important is typography in graphic design?
Ari:
Oh, 50-50 with image. You can't do much with type on the Web but it's getting better and
better. Flash allows you to do vector-based anything, shapes, type and images. To a
certain extent, the limitations you can do with type on the Web is good, like there's
only five or six you can use with HTML. Designs are not as bad as it can be because I've
seen a lot of print work that abuses typography.
What's the worse font? Comic Sans?
Thalia:
Yes!
Who are your inspirations?
Ari:
I'm not up to date with designers now. I'm more familiar with designers back in the 60's
and 70's. There's more sense to their work, more to understand. Not a lot of experimental
things today - which usually turns out to be bad. Some of them are good but a lot are just a
waste of time. Graphic design is about information and how you convey information, that's
why I like how information design works.
We don't hear much about Asian designers out there. Does it matter or should we be given more credit?
Thalia:
It doesn't really matter to me whether you are Asian or not. If you're really good,
you're gonna be exposed.
Ari:
Asian names are hard to pronounce so the credit goes to someone else. [laughs]
Thalia:
Being Japanese right now is a trend. Bjork wants to be Japanese. Don't put that on
tape. [laughs] For some reason, I don't know whether it's genetic or not, but most
Asians can draw. They can live with charcoal. [laughs]
Do people look at you and are surprised that you're a designer? Or has it been welcoming?
Thalia:
In design, Asians are more expected to excel.
Ari:
It's a field where it's more democratic.
Thalia:
I don't know when it started, but Asians and design are supposed to go together or something.
Did your parents take it well when you moved to the art industry?
Thalia:
My father freaked out. It took almost six years to get my degree in Mechanical Engineering
and all of a sudden I'm in Web design.
Ari:
What are you doing? You're throwing away six years of engineering school! [laughs]
Thalia:
Yeah, he was expecting me to be an engineer that's why I went to that field, but after a
month of explaining it to him, this is what I do, it makes money...
Ari:
I had the same conversation with a friend of mine who was Indian and he became a designer
even though his parents wanted him to be a doctor. Asian parents are strict and they
want something that's reliable and established.
What goes through your mind when you hear the term "Asian-American kids?"
Thalia:
Seriously? Import cars. [laughs] I used to be into that, too.
Ari:
I don't know. [laughs] Good in math. Smart. I don't know. No clue. [laughs]
Where do you see yourself in ten years?
Ari:
Start my own company someday. Doesn't matter whether it's Web or print.
Thalia:
Start a company that has something to do with being creative. Not necessarily with computers.
Ari:
Asians have a lot of interesting culture. There are a lot of things to explore there.
If the Web dies tomorrow, what are you going to be doing? Mechanical Engineering?
Thalia:
Yes, because I need to eat. [laughs] I'll try Industrial Design.
Ari:
I'll teach swimming. [laughs]
Any last thoughts?
Ari:
Be yourself. Don't try to be too American. Try hard in everything that you do.
Thalia:
[nods] Yeah. And you don't have to go to school to be a Web designer. But this whole
Web thing is growing really fast and if you're still in school, keep on learning
and that will give you a jumpstart.
.